Bob Duff: Pulkkinen must score to play - it's as simple as that Detroit Red Wings forward Teemu Pulkkinen, a proven goal scorer in the AHL, hasn't displayed a consistent offensive knack as an NHLer.

geez.... a crap couple of games.

There were big games IMO. I really think its time to make a Big move and move out of some guys (Jurco, Pelky, Kindl, Helm, Andersson and maybe even Sheahan).

Howard is another thing too, just plain ol' shaky with no confidence -- the kid has taken his role and Howard simply isnt' giving it back.

Patch wants out of MTL, they got no goalie, call em up Kenny. hehe.

I think the Flyers and Red Wings could be good partners. Not sure exactly but I think Matt Read would be a nice two way player for the wings, also kills penalties. Flyers could use more skill on wings.

Would Tatar or maybe Pulkkinen work? Flyers need LW

I think the Flyers and Red Wings could be good partners. Not sure exactly but I think Matt Read would be a nice two way player for the wings, also kills penalties. Flyers could use more skill on wings.

Would Tatar or maybe Pulkkinen work? Flyers need LW
- J35Bacher

Tatar, absolutely no. Pulkkinen.... mayyyybe, but I still wouldn't. We need D very badly, so any trade that doesn't bring back defense is pointless. Also ANY trade that involves Howard is worth doing. Any backup who knows his role is much better.

Horrible weekend for sure, 2 in division losses

to comment on everyone saying we need to make some huge change and overhaul a lot of the dead weight, the issue with that is, whos gonna take on the guys who truly have no use on the team? if we are mediocre and want to shed the worst parts of our team, no one is gonna do that unless we package someone really good with them

i read on hockey writers at one point that Pulk, Richards and a 3rd might snag shattenkirk, i doubt thats true, but i would do that for sure

Bullsh*t.

Here are Detroit's top five scorers at even strength this year, as determined by points per 60 minutes of ice time:

1. Dylan Larkin: 2.37
2. Pavel Datsyuk: 1.94
3. Tomas Tatar: 1.74
4. TEEMU PULKKINEN: 1.56
5. Justin Abdelkader: 1.48

How about goals per 60 minutes at even strength?

1. Dylan Larkin: 1.14
2. TEEMU PULKKINEN: 1.12
3. Tomas Tatar: 0.87
4. Justin Abdelkader: 0.74
5. Brad Richards: 0.58

You'll notice Pulkkinen ranking highly in both categories. You'll also notice the conspicuous absence of Henrik Zetterberg (whose offensive decline is very apparent) and Gustav Nyquist, whose defense is every bit as suspect as Pulkkinen's and who has always relied heavily on the powerplay to get his points. (Nyquist is scoring just 1.15 points per 60 minutes of 5-on-5 ice time, which is Glendening territory.)

"If Pulkkinen were potting goals on a regular basis, the Wings would make room for him."

"Pulkkinen has yet to display that he is capable of finding room for himself in the attacking zone, or that he owns the quick release necessary to get his shot away in the limited space offered when playing against the world’s top players."

"Teams can’t afford to carry someone who is a defensive uncertainty if they aren’t producing consistently."

This is all a steaming pile of 100% Grade-A bullsh*t. Pulkkinen is generating more offense per shift than any Red Wing forward not named Larkin, Datsyuk, or Tatar.

And yet, despite kvetching all year long about how the Wings can't generate any offense, Pulkkinen is still stuck in the press box (or if he's lucky, the fourth line) while Darren Helm skates with Datsyuk every night. It's madness.

This is 100% about opportunity. Pulkkinen has done everything he can to show he is capable of contributing to this team as a top six forward in the pitiful amount of minutes he's been given. But apparently the standard is now "lead the team in goals from the fourth line or you'll never move up." It drives me nuts.

Tatar, absolutely no. Pulkkinen.... mayyyybe, but I still wouldn't. We need D very badly, so any trade that doesn't bring back defense is pointless. Also ANY trade that involves Howard is worth doing. Any backup who knows his role is much better.
- Paul_and_Wings

leafs might be willing to swap a prospect or 2 for pulkkinen...i have no idea who.

Bullsh*t.

Here are Detroit's top five scorers at even strength this year, as determined by points per 60 minutes of ice time:

1. Dylan Larkin: 2.37
2. Pavel Datsyuk: 1.94
3. Tomas Tatar: 1.74
4. TEEMU PULKKINEN: 1.56
5. Justin Abdelkader: 1.48

How about goals per 60 minutes at even strength?

1. Dylan Larkin: 1.14
2. TEEMU PULKKINEN: 1.12
3. Tomas Tatar: 0.87
4. Justin Abdelkader: 0.74
5. Brad Richards: 0.58

You'll notice Pulkkinen ranking highly in both categories. You'll also notice the conspicuous absence of Henrik Zetterberg (whose offensive decline is very apparent) and Gustav Nyquist, whose defense is every bit as suspect and Pulkkinen's and who has always relied heavily on the powerplay to get his points. (Nyquist is scoring just 1.15 points per 60 minutes of 5-on-5 ice time, which is Glendening territory.)

"If Pulkkinen were potting goals on a regular basis, the Wings would make room for him."

"Pulkkinen has yet to display that he is capable of finding room for himself in the attacking zone, or that he owns the quick release necessary to get his shot away in the limited space offered when playing against the world’s top players."

"Teams can’t afford to carry someone who is a defensive uncertainty if they aren’t producing consistently."

This is all a steaming pile of 100% Grade-A bullsh*t. Pulkkinen is generating more offense per shift than any Red Wing forward not named Larkin, Datsyuk, or Tatar.

And yet, despite kvetching all year long about how the Wings can't generate any offense, Pulkkinen is still stuck in the press box (or if he's lucky, the fourth line) while Darren Helm skates with Datsyuk every night. It's madness.

This is 100% about opportunity. Pulkkinen has done everything he can to show he is capable of contributing to this team as a top six forward in the pitiful amount of minutes he's been given. But apparently the standard is now "lead the team in goals from the fourth line or you'll never move up." It drives me nuts.
- Sven22

Completely agree here. As much as I hate to say it, both Z and Datsyuk have slowed considerably. Helm being in the top six and Pulks either sitting or playing fourth line minutes is definitely madness. Most of the Wings' forwards have been terribly inconsistent all year and our PP is just dreadful. I've never seen a D corps miss the net on the PP like the ours does. Truly frustrating. If a deal exists (and that's a big IF) to bring in a Shattenkirk or Byfuglien, then it needs to be made. As for Howard, he is going nowhere. Who would take him at that salary and term? Plenty of cheaper, more cost effective options out there for the very few teams seeking help in that position.

Completely agree here. As much as I hate to say it, both Z and Datsyuk have slowed considerably. Helm being in the top six and Pulks either sitting or playing fourth line minutes is definitely madness. Most of the Wings' forwards have been terribly inconsistent all year and our PP is just dreadful. I've never seen a D corps miss the net on the PP like the ours does. Truly frustrating. If a deal exists (and that's a big IF) to bring in a Shattenkirk or Byfuglien, then it needs to be made. As for Howard, he is going nowhere. Who would take him at that salary and term? Plenty of cheaper, more cost effective options out there for the very few teams seeking help in that position.
- cocothemonkey

if the leafs were to blow up their goaltending situation, personally, i wouldn't be opposed to bringing in a veteran like howard as a backup - but absolutely not at that salary in term. that's a tough contract to move.

When you play 9 to 12 mins a night & see no power play time playing with slugs it's pretty hard to score. If Blashill persists in playing Helm, Richards & others ahead of players like Nyquist, Tatar & Pulkkinen Detroit is going to struggle to score. Helm has never scored yet he's playing ahead of Nyquist & Tatar. Great skater just no hands & his puck distribution skills aren't exactly conducive to others who play with him scoring.

I would say Abdelkader is being miscast as well. An average player who works his ass off & does everything you want all players to do but really is a 3rd line winger who due to the quality & quantity of his minutes & top line opportunity can produce slightly above average results; See Komorov in Toronto as well. Babcock's new favorite. He had his best offensive season last year by a mile, 23 goals & 44 points! Those aren't really 1st line winger #'s especially considering his opportunity & quality of minutes.

Here's my suggestion.

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Larkin.
Tatar, Sheahan, Nyquist.
Abdelkader, Richards, Pulkkinen.
Helm, Clendening, Jurco.

Spare Andersson.

1st PP unit. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Larsson, Kronwall; when healthy, Nyquist.
2nd PP unit. Tatar, Richards, Abdelkader, Green, Pulkinnen.

Green moves up well Kronwall is injured & Dekeyser & Smith see some PP time. A few variations happen over the course of the game due to penalty killing, injuries etc & the odd players get swapped periodically from 1 to the other related to hot hand, competition, what have you.

Persisting to try & fit a sqaure plug into a round hole doesn't make sense.

There's a part of me that suspects that, if the Red Wings hadn't suffered all those injuries a few years ago, Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, etc. would still be on the fourth line or have been traded away by now due to them "not producing at the NHL level."

It was as if losing Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen all at the same time and being forced to use young players in key roles was what it finally took for management to realize "oh yeah, I guess they can provide reliable offense if you given them the opportunity."

Except two years later they've already completely forgotten the lesson, if they even learned it at all in the first place. Put Pulkkinen at 1 or 2 LW and keep him there and I guarantee you he will score regularly. Sure, he'll have hot and cold streaks just like everyone else, but over 82 games I am very confident in predicting he'd be a 25+ goal, 50+ point player, based on what he has been able to achieve both at lower levels as well the NHL, where as I demonstrated above his scoring rates have actually been among the best on the team.

Maybe if somebody goes Tonya Harding on Helm, Richards, and Abdelkader we'll finally get to see what Pulkkinen is actually capable of in the minutes he actually deserves. I hope that's not ultimately what it takes.

I don't care who plays center between Datsyuk & Zetterberg. I see the pairing like Thornton & Pavelski in SJ.

if the leafs were to blow up their goaltending situation, personally, i wouldn't be opposed to bringing in a veteran like howard as a backup - but absolutely not at that salary in term. that's a tough contract to move.
- Tumbleweed

I guess there is the possibility of moving Howard if the Wings ate part of his salary to facilitate a deal. Not sure if they'd do that though. The problem is, Howard gets paid like a starter and probably still wants to be a starter. Accepting a back up role may not be part of his plans going forward. I wonder if there's any possibility he would ask to be traded? Not sure that would be wise, but it's clear he'll have to accept being the back up to Mrazek or (attempt to) move on.

if the leafs were to blow up their goaltending situation, personally, i wouldn't be opposed to bringing in a veteran like howard as a backup - but absolutely not at that salary in term. that's a tough contract to move.
- Tumbleweed

Not saying I'd necessarily do it (or the Leafs would either) but Howard for Bernier with the Wings eating $1 million to make the money work would be something I'd at least consider. Next year would be ugly with $4 million for Bernier, $1 million for Howard, plus whatever Mrazek ends up getting on his new contract, but the short term pain might be worth it to "buy out" those last two years of Howard's deal.

I don't know what games you have been watching but pulks has only one aspect to his game, he does not rush/carry the puck, he is not defensive, he loses almost every battle down low, he is not an exceptional passer, and if he wasn't on a one way he'd be back down in the minors and someone else would be up.

Not saying I'd necessarily do it (or the Leafs would either) but Howard for Bernier with the Wings eating $1 million to make the money work would be something I'd at least consider. Next year would be ugly with $4 million for Bernier, $1 million for Howard, plus whatever Mrazek ends up getting on his new contract, but the short term pain might be worth it to "buy out" those last two years of Howard's deal.
- Sven22

contract length difference on that trade is just too much. i can't see the leafs wanting to do that. plus, bernier is at a boom/bust point in his career. however low the odds, he might bounce back. there is no upside with howard that i can see.

i think think the leafs would want to move lupul for howard...which i don't see as helpful to the wings.

The wings spend 27 million on there defense. This ranks #1 in the nhl, this is mind boggling since our def is terrible, Kenny Holland has mis managed this team terrible. You cant give him credit for the players have been recruited even. Other than giving out bad contracts, and making questionable trades he has failed in the last 5 years with this team.

Put together a terrible def and blashills desire to stay committed to Richards and helm on the second line this team is going no where. Were only where we are because of mrazek.

We pretty much have 3 third lines and a 4th line on most nights.

Our as some of you jimmy die hards may give him some of the credit.

The wings spend 27 million on there defense. This ranks #1 in the nhl, this is mind boggling since our def is terrible, Kenny Holland has mis managed this team terrible. You cant give him credit for the players have been recruited even. Other than giving out bad contracts, and making questionable trades he has failed in the last 5 years with this team.

Put together a terrible def and blashills desire to stay committed to Richards and helm on the second line this team is going no where. Were only where we are because of mrazek.

We pretty much have 3 third lines and a 4th line on most nights.

Our as some of you jimmy die hards may give him some of the credit.
- hockeyislife99

who do you guys want to get rid of on defense?

who do you guys want to get rid of on defense?
- Tumbleweed

Ericsson is possibly one of the 5 worst defenseman in the league right now.

who do you guys want to get rid of on defense?
- Tumbleweed

I'm sure you'll hear at least 4-5 different players mentioned by various fans.

By far the one I'd most like to move would be Ericsson. He might not be the Wings' absolute worst regular defenseman (although even that's debatable), but there's no question he has the ugliest contract.

who do you guys want to get rid of on defense?
- Tumbleweed

As per your other comment, literally ANY trade that involves Howard should be done, he is a toxin to this team, in my opinion.

We would like to move Kindl, Ericsson, Smith, leaving Kronwall, DDK, Green, Quincey, Marchenko. Then, with whoever we trade, getting a serviceable top 4 dman, preferably a righty. We would have to add, but it would be worth it. Smith is our best trade chip out of that bunch, so maybe him and a 1st to get someone. Personally, Ericsson is the real weak link and I'd rather see him go than anyone, except Howard.

Sven, I do agree with you about management burying players to long in the minors, and as much as I don't think pulks will amount to much, he does deserve a legit chance and why not now. Same with AA, Bertuzzi, Mantha, Jensen, Oulette. But we wont see any of those guys for another 10 seasons while "marinating in the minors". Well just to continue to overpay mediocre players. After all Holland is running a charity (loyalty program).

As per your other comment, literally ANY trade that involves Howard should be done, he is a toxin to this team, in my opinion.

We would like to move Kindl, Ericsson, Smith, leaving Kronwall, DDK, Green, Quincey, Marchenko. Then, with whoever we trade, getting a serviceable top 4 dman, preferably a righty. We would have to add, but it would be worth it. Smith is our best trade chip out of that bunch, so maybe him and a 1st to get someone. Personally, Ericsson is the real weak link and I'd rather see him go than anyone, except Howard.
- Paul_and_Wings

if the leafs were looking to move reimer in another trade, maybe something like:

lupul, bernier, percy (our most ready nhl d-prospect, 4-6 potential)

for

howard,kindl, pulkkinen (looking for a mid-twenties player with some upside that you guys have soured on, maybe not the best piece).

idk, it's hard because i don't really see a one-for-one deal that makes sense with howard. that complicated mess would never get done.

ericcsson would involve phanuef going the other way imo.

Sven, I do agree with you about management burying players to long in the minors, and as much as I don't think pulks will amount to much, he does deserve a legit chance and why not now. Same with AA, Bertuzzi, Mantha, Jensen, Oulette. But we wont see any of those guys for another 10 seasons while "marinating in the minors". Well just to continue to overpay mediocre players. After all Holland is running a charity (loyalty program).
- hockeyislife99

I think if Pulks ever gets a real chance you will be pleasantly surprised. 12 points in 29 games is actually pretty good considering how little he plays and how awful the Red Wings offense is generally.

Pulkkinen has 115% more goals and 36% more points per minute of 5-on-5 ice time as Gustav Nyquist this year. He may be a 1-trick pony, but his trick is pretty good. And most of the complaints you can make about his defense or all-around game could just as easily be made about Nike.

This team's handling of its vets and young players really is depressing, isn't it? In the no-cap era you could get away with it. In the first 10 years of the cap era they've continued to get away with it because of the leftovers from the old guard (Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, etc.). If the Red Wings ever want to get back to the top, they either have to get really really lucky or make a radical change to their team building approach.

I would probably agree that ericsson would be the guy i wish we could move the most,

i probably dont complain about him as much as many of the others, but his contract straight sucks, if he was paid 2 mil on a shorter term, i wouldnt complain, but considering XO is as good already and paid less, and has a much higher potential ceiling, it makes me hate his contract a lot